MBTA fare collection meeting.

[randomness]

I went to the MBTA's public outreach meeting on the new fare collection system Tuesday. There were many details, some of which are being discussed on my earlier post.

One important detail is that cash will no longer be accepted on board any vehicles, either for fare payment or topping up the balance on a CharlieCard. The proposal includes a rollout of more ticket vending machines and more third-party vendors.

They offered a website for suggestions on where new machines should go. That site is: http://gisdev.massdot.state.ma.us/planning/proposedafclocations/

(The URL they gave at the meeting was actually www.mbta.com/AFC2-locations, but it redirects to the above.)

So if you want to tell the T you want a machine near you, this is a chance to say so.

Edit to add: Here is the text from the suggestion website.

"As part of the MBTA’s new Charlie fare collection system rolling out in 2020, we will be installing fare vending machines (kiosks) at some bus stops and partnering with businesses to vastly increase the locations where people can add money to their MBTA transit account. In addition to these locations you can add money online and then tap your new Charlie Card, smartphone or credit card to board. Riders won’t be able to add cash onboard buses and trains in the new system, so we want to make sure that everyone has the opportunity to reload their account in convenient locations.

This feedback tool allows you to give input directly to the MBTA on where you think it’s most important to have the fare vending machines or retail locations. Zoom into the map to see the locations of our current fare vending machines (yellow flags). The new system will include all of these locations, in addition to hundreds of new locations. Please select “Propose New Fare Vending Location” to add a pin for the locations you propose. You can also agree with locations already proposed by selecting them from the list and clicking “I Agree”. For more information about the project please visit our website https://www.mbta.com/afc2"

Comments

[minoanmiss]

Thank you for going! *takes notes*

[randomness]

Sure!

Glad to talk about this.

[gingicat]

I doubt they’ll put a card machine at the closest stop to me since they don’t even shovel the snow. Not that I can get to my workplace by transit anyway (it takes three times as long and I wouldn’t be able to leave as early as I need to), but it already means I don’t go to downtown Boston frequently.

[randomness]

My sense is that they'll be trying to get major bus connections and terminals. They're not even promising to get every commuter rail station--which to my mind is mad--so they certainly won't be getting every bus stop.

[frotz]

Thanks, I was about to ask what the story was with commuter rail. A while back they were aggressively pushing their ticketing app and telling people they'd stop accepting cash soon, and now it's back to the status quo where nobody cares if I use cash. (They also went through a couple of generations of receipt-printing technology, with the classic hole-punch tickets in between.)

Is there anyplace else that doesn't take cash on buses and medium-distance rail?

[randomness]

Sure, no problem. I'll be glad to talk about this in person when you like.

Yeah, no cash on board is a trend. I don't like it, but it definitely saves on staff costs.

Off the top of my head:

London went no-cash on buses a couple of years ago, and the UK in general had gone no-cash on rail a while back.

Oslo had big signs everywhere on the trains and platforms announcing that conductors would no longer be accepting payment on board and a penalty fare would be assessed; they switched over to no-cash on rail in the recent past and it was clear that the transition needed a lot of public education. I think they were already no-cash on buses, but I don't know when that happened.

Helsinki was similar but I think they did the transition earlier.

Stockholm is no-cash on pendeltåg (commuter rail) but they put turnstiles at every station (that I could see) and have a flat fare throughout their rather extensive network, so it functions like an enormous Metro. My memory is that they don't take cash on buses, either.

Dubai never took cash on buses, but as they were a new system they didn't have any user education to do.

I'm pretty sure all of France and Italy is cashless on the trains because they've both had those "compostage de billet" ticket stamp machines on the platforms for a long time. I think you may still be able to buy tickets on board most Italian city buses at a higher fare, but they may have pushed that off to the traditional third-party vendors.

[randomness]

Oh, yeah. I think all of Japan is cashless on the trains, because they have turnstiles everywhere, including for the Shinkansen. I won't swear that there isn't some private branch line somewhere out in the sticks with a conductor who takes cash, but I've never seen it.

Hong Kong and Singapore are both cashless but that's because neither of them has any medium-distance rail that doesn't leave the country/territory. :) But I don't actually think you can pay cash on board in either China or Malaysia.

In China on-board ticketing would add to the existing chaos during Chunyun. It's bad enough the way it is now; I can't actually imagine they can get a conductor through the hard seat train cars to do ticket checks during that crush. China does ticket inspection at turnstiles or with staff on both entry and exit.

All the elektrichka services I've ever taken in the former Soviet Union required payment before boarding. Ticket checks sometimes happen on board, but on-board staff don't sell tickets, they just fine you for not having one. They're rare enough that I posted when I actually had my ticket checked.

I have never seen a ticket check on a commuter service (as opposed to metro) in Delhi or Mumbai. I mean, theoretically they exist, because I've read newspaper stories about people being caught for fare evasion, but I've never personally seen a fare inspector. In Delhi it was actually impossible to buy one at the outlying station I boarded at because there was no ticket office open--there was one, but it was long derelict and looked to be occupied by squatters--and when I asked other riders they looked at me like I was from Mars.

(Sorry for the brain-dump.)

[randomness]

Oh, also. I remember a conversation we had not too long ago about the various RTAs like Lowell, Worcester, et. al. taking CharlieCards, and how you mentioned that AFC 2.0 was coming?

I got up and asked a question at the meeting about that. Turns out the MBTA aren't going to wait for any of the RTAs. "There might be a lag" was the quote (from imperfect memory).

So, translating into actual English, I see that the MBTA are going to switch to new CharlieCards and the other RTAs will be using the old ones for some unspecified transition period.

Which means that the poor sod who takes the LRTA or the WRTA to MBTA Commuter Rail and then takes that somewhere will need to juggle two cards, and make sure they use the right card for the right ride.

If the MBTA strong-armed the RTAs into taking the old CharlieCards, well. Let's just say if I were running one of the RTAs and had bought all the hardware and software to make my system compatible with the old system, I'd be pissed.

(I recently used my CharlieCard on the WRTA to ride a bus to Worcester Airport and back, and then loaded more money onto my card at a machine at the WRTA Transit Hub. It's great! But now the MBTA seems pretty relaxed about breaking this.)

[frotz]

One interesting thing about the LRTA implementation is that they fixed what I consider a huge bug in the MBTA's implementation--their FVMs are actually capable of distributing CharlieCards! (They're not always stocked, but they *can*!)

If it's all going to be CharlieCards now, does that mean we might get rail<->subway transfers?

[randomness]

their FVMs are actually capable of distributing CharlieCards!

That's awesome!

AFC 2.0 is going to do that on the MBTA, but the new cards will cost you $5.

does that mean we might get rail<->subway transfers?

Maaaybe?

They did a lot of hand-waving about new fare structures, but they say they want to roll out the new hardware first. They do say that the new hardware will facilitate more flexible fare schemes.