(no subject)

[randomness]

Alas, as many of you have observed, I made a mistake on the poll I just posted and must repost the poll question. (LiveJournal does not allow polls to be edited.)

We apologize for the inconvenience.

[Poll #1521474]

Comments

[evilmagnus]

Argh, I picked -5 instead of 5. Brains gone.

Anyway, I grew up with manuals, but I drive autos now. Aside from some specific edge cases (hill climbing in bad weather) I see no reason to drive stick. And for the times when I want manual, I have sportshift. :)

[r-ness.livejournal.com]

You know you can edit your answer, even if I cannot edit the poll?

I believe

http://www.livejournal.com/poll/?id=1521474&mode=enter

will take you back to the poll to edit your response. (Not that it's a big deal for this poll, but in case you ever find the information useful.)

[jtdiii.livejournal.com]

Manuals no longer have any edge in gas mileage. New cars are better at shifting than people. All but maybe 1% or less of the population.

It may have uses for off roading, but how often do people really do that?

[r-ness.livejournal.com]

You may be confronted with a car that has a manual transmission at some point, either because someone has a car to lend or to rent.

[jtdiii.livejournal.com]

I learned to drive standard on a farm tractor. I can do it in a pinch with the occasional stall.

I drive enough bumper to bumper traffic that a manual would be a major.

[r-ness.livejournal.com]

Sure. I was just coming up with a reason why one might want to know how to drive a car with a manual transmission.

[esmerel.livejournal.com]

yes.. yes it is. ugh.

[r-ness.livejournal.com]

Also, I disagree that new cars are better than shifting than people in the case of rocking a car out of an ice-covered space. Unless there is a new car that has a "get me out of slippery space" mode.

[ayrshire-of-elm.livejournal.com]

OMG, I just rocked my manual out of the icy ditch @ the end of my driveway an hour ago. So I'd have to agree. And my old ('98) manual got me 37mpg highway, which beats my roommate's 2008 cobalt any day of the week. New Car? Not good mileage in the week that I've had it and I facepalmed at the pump. Maybe when the snow goes away!

[totient]

Manuals no longer have any edge in gas mileage

http://www.fueleconomy.gov tracks manual and automatic separately, and says that for gasoline engine cars, actually they do. Manual transmission cars also typically get a few more horsepower delivered to the wheels, because an automatic transmission will not come closer than about 500 rpm to the redline no matter how far the driver presses the pedal.

[jtdiii.livejournal.com]

Yes and these are the same studies that regularly have MPG readings 10-20% better than experienced by real drivers. If the test vehicles leave the smooth track and get into real world conditions the difference is minor and if you deal with stop and go city traffic, the manual soon loses any efficiency gains it might have on shifting.

[totient]

Most (*) cars that have both manual and automatic options have more gears and a higher top gear ratio available on the manual than on the automatic. Both of these things cause the car to get better gas mileage. It's not about the torque converter.

[totient]

(*) Most measured by number of cars sold, not by number of models; many models of luxury and sports car offer 6 speeds for both the manual and the automatic but there aren't a lot of these cars on the road.

[digitalemur.livejournal.com]

New cars do seem to be better at shifting than people, yes, but that's with the relatively few gears you get on a passenger car. On an 18-wheeler with some form of semi-automatic transmission a good driver can still get WAY better gas mileage from shifting well than drivers who don't know what they're doing. Which is useless to the rest of us... but it's how my dad has the best fuel efficiency numbers in his company. (And he's a total nerd about it too. :) )

[milktree.livejournal.com]

I hate hate hate automatic transmissions. I wouldn't own one unless it was absolutely necessary.

I have yet to drive an automatic transmission car that didn't annoy me because it failed to shift at the "right place". The best I've driven only annoyed me a little bit.

By "right", I mean one that lets me control what the car does. I'm pretty sure I'm doing it "right" because I still get better mileage in my 16 year old car with 1/4 million miles on it than Honda claimed it could when it was new. And as palmwiz can (hopefully) confirm, I'm pretty good at pushing it in the "performance" arena too. Which is to say, I'm pretty confident I know what I'm doing, and the automatic transmission doesn't.


However, I've never driven a CVT or true auto-shift manual transmission car like an F1 car that actually has a true non-viscous clutch and a computer to hydraulically control it.

[chanaleh.livejournal.com]

I am (as yet) utterly untrained in the driving of the manual, thus I have no option other than to answer +5.

[bloodstones.livejournal.com]

I picked +3 because I really want to know how to drive stick. I don't know if that's really what your poll is supposed to measure, but my preference is not all auto all the time, even though I don't know how to drive manual.

Also, I have a story you'll probably really enjoy. You should ping me the next time you're online.

[r-ness.livejournal.com]

*nod* I was actually attempting to measure present state of preference; the other question about wanting to learn is attempting to capture interest in learning.

You should ping me the next time you're online.

Well, I'm on now... :)

[hammercock.livejournal.com]

I confess that part of the reason I love driving manual transmission vehicles is because of general society's sexist expectation that women can't/don't do so. :)

The only times I don't enjoy driving manual: 1) Stop-and-go traffic conditions, and 2) if something is preventing full use of all my limbs. Oh...actually, there's also 3) when I would prefer not to be driving for some reason but I have to because I'm the only one there who can. :-}

[kjc.livejournal.com]

Yes, this.

I love driving stick, but it can be a PITA when things get awkward.

I also love the control of driving stick.

Anyway, I learned on a standard via a professional instructor, but the first car I owned (age 17) was a stick, which my Dad taught me how to drive because I drove my mother nuts with my driving. Pretty much every car I've owned since then has been a stick.

It's awesomely convenient to be able to drive almost anything.

[r-ness.livejournal.com]

It's awesomely convenient to be able to drive almost anything.

Exactly. :)

[kirkcudbright.livejournal.com]

It's awesomely convenient to be able to drive almost anything.

And anywhere. Britain may have changed in the last 6 years, but every time I've been there, good luck finding a rental with automatic. Standard is still standard in large swaths of the world.

[whitebird.livejournal.com]

I would have had a harder time driving in England when I was there if I'd chosen an automatic vehicle. Having to shift with my left hand was a perfect reminder to "Hey! Something's different here, pay attention!"

(Also, Mini Cooper S'es are marvelous on England roundabouts...)

[kirkcudbright.livejournal.com]

Also, Mini Cooper S'es are marvelous on England roundabouts...

Alas, not so the 15-passenger van with a dodgy clutch, full of amputees and bicycles.

[whitebird.livejournal.com]

No, those aren't marvelous about anything, except for stories and feel-good points.

[totient]

Having 1/2 be away from you and R be towards you is damn disconcerting, though.

[kirkcudbright.livejournal.com]

As whitebird said, it's a reminder that "Hey! Something's different here, pay attention!" And my hands adjust pretty quickly.

The first time I drove in Britain (circa 1990), the steering wheel controls were reversed - turn signals on the right, windscreen washer on the left - and that really threw me. My hands never did adjust to that.

[mamamoira.livejournal.com]

I am fundamentally incapable of driving a manual transmission. My dad spent a good long afternoon trying to teach me, and all I could manage to do was to either stall or spin tires madly. I simply cannot manage to move both feet in different ways at the same time. I suspect if the action of the accelerator and clutch were identical (the clutch pedal moves WAY DIFFERENTLY than the gas pedal does, which is bad for me), then...maybe I could get the hang of it. Still moving in opposite directions, essentially. I'm just not that coordinated. :)

On the other hand, I learned to drive on Toyotas with that nice automatic tranny that you could get to change gears on your timeframe instead of its, if you tapped the pedal just right, so I have an appreciation of the increased control desired. My minivan now ('98 Caravan) has one of those "learning" trannies that over time learns your driving pattern and accomodates its shifting pattern to you. Not quite as good, but pretty decent; I can certainly tell the difference between when I'm driving it and when my husband is (which is rarely).

[hca.livejournal.com]

I actively prefer stick-shift - I always feel like I have more control, like I'm more connected to what the car is doing. I can hear and feel when it does something weird.

To be fair, I have only ever regularly driven manuals. My parents had two, and both of the cars I have owned in my adult life have been manual - the second one, I sought it out deliberately. I can drive my husband's automatic no problem, but I don't do it often. Maybe if I did, I would become sufficiently acquainted with it that I would also be able to sense when it was doing something weird. Maybe it's not manual shift that grants that sense, but familiarity. (I personally think it's manual-shift, though. :) )

[marginaleye.livejournal.com]

I've never understood the mystique of stick-shift. How the hell am I supposed to drink my coffee, eat my sandwich, select a different song on the iPod, and so forth, if I also have to use my right hand to constantly adjust the greasy innards of the transmission? I'm not driving a race-car, I'm just commuting to work and back, so I really don't need that tiny added measure of control. and while a manual transmission might save me a dollar or two at the gas station, I'm willing to pay for being able to drink my coffee, eat my sandwich, and fiddle with my iPod in peace, with no mechanically-required interruptions.

[contrariety.livejournal.com]

Frankly, I think it's just that those of us who like stick shifts find them fun. It's like golf. Inexplicably, some people just enjoy it. :)

[marginaleye.livejournal.com]

Heh. I learned to drive when I was 33. In Boston. At a driving school located in Chinatown, the very apotheosis of stop-and-go city driving (I was working at Tufts Medical School at the time, and taking driving lessons during my lunch hours). So if there's anyone who isn't likely to see the charm of shifting gears as recreational, it's probably me.

[r-ness.livejournal.com]

I had a friend at college who could steer with her knees while she ate with both hands. She said she'd practiced this daily on the drive to and from high school.

It was an impressive feat to watch as a passenger.

[contrariety.livejournal.com]

Woohoo! My worldview wins!

(joking, obviously! :) )

[r-ness.livejournal.com]

My worldview wins!

With me, certainly. :)

Mileage? Mistique? No way, baby. It's ABOUT THE BENJAMIN$.

[ddreslough.livejournal.com]

Clutches are easier to repair and replace. Replacing a transmission? It's always over $2000, can take weeks, and the car just never runs quite right again. It's like brain surgery. Replacing a clutch can be done in a day, and costs far less, and the car runs like it always did (in my experience - YMMV).

And roll starts! Battery dead? No problem...roll that sucker down the hill and pop it into gear.

And, NO ONE WANTS TO STEAL A STICKSHIFT IN AMERICA! These young whippursnappurs don't know how them old-fangly masheens work.

Benjamin$. I like my money. Stick all the way, baby.

Re: Mileage? Mistique? No way, baby. It's ABOUT THE BENJAMIN$.

[totient]

The anti-theft feature of a stick had not occurred to me.

Sadly, if your battery is truly dead, push-starting a car with an ECU is not going to work.

Re: Mileage? Mistique? No way, baby. It's ABOUT THE BENJAMIN$.

[ddreslough.livejournal.com]

Hnmmm... I don't use an ECU for pushing. I use a husband.


;)

[pmat.livejournal.com]

I learned to drive with manual transmission and drove one for many years. And I've driven one fairly recently, and could again if I had to. However, the motion needed to push in the clutch kills my knee, and that also makes it difficult to let it back out smoothly. Automatic for me!