randomness: (Default)
[personal profile] randomness
Muddy Waters Research accuses it of being a "a multi-billion dollar ponzi scheme", "accompanied by substantial theft".

John Hempton observes:
There is a cottage industry in doing forensic analysis of Chinese frauds. I have analysed many and put only a smattering on the blog.

But I have never seen anything this big or this amazing.

Read the report. I am in awe.
Felix Salmon explains:
What’s certain is that in the wake of all this, either Sino-Forest or Muddy Waters is going to lose all credibility: one of them is a multi-million-dollar fraud. Muddy Waters is short Sino-Forest, of course. If Sino-Forest turns out to be a slightly dodgy Chinese forestry company and not a Ponzi scheme, you can be sure that Muddy Waters has been covering its short all day and has banked a huge amount of money by putting out extremely misleading material. On the other hand, if Muddy Waters is right, then Sino-Forest is toast.

(no subject)

Date: 2011-06-07 01:43 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cerebralpaladin.livejournal.com
Actually, I did a little checking on this, and I found that this may be false. Ponzi for many years (after conviction and incarceration) claimed that he was running an honest business, but wikipedia says that he admitted in a final interview shortly before his death that it was all a fraud. Of course, like all the "best" frauds, Ponzi's scheme had an actual potentially money-making venture at its heart. There was an actual arbitrage opportunity that he claimed to be using--it just wasn't big enough or easy enough to be practical, and it was easier to build a giant (and eponymous) Ponzi scheme instead. What is strange about Ponzi's case is that he kept running the scheme while everything fell apart. You have to wonder why he didn't take the money and run before the house of cards caved in. But then, you could say the same thing about Madoff. It's probably pretty hard when you have a giant pile of money, a big house, and social status, to run away with however much cash you can stuff in a suitcase or whatever, even though that's the only way to run a Ponzi scheme and succeed. (I suppose you could gradually fail your investment, while salting away cash, but even then you'll probably be exposed.)

(no subject)

Date: 2011-06-07 05:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] achinhibitor.livejournal.com
Many years ago, there was a guy in Hollywood selling Ponzi investments to movie stars. When it went bang, an incredible amount of money was unaccounted for. I heard nothing more about it, so I assume that he settled in return for not being prosecuted, and keeping enough of the loot to retire comfortably. So at least that guy had the end-game planned out.

I suspect Madoff's problem was that what he really wanted wasn't the money but the status. If you want the status of being a bigwig, there is no exit strategy.

Profile

randomness: (Default)
Randomness

November 2024

S M T W T F S
     12
3456789
10111213141516
171819 20212223
24252627282930

Most Popular Tags

Style Credit

Expand Cut Tags

No cut tags