Megan McArdle on differential gender standards in the workplace.

[randomness]

As a followup to a post by Kevin Drum on why women are reluctant to negotiate, Megan McArdle posted:

When I was in business school, I learned about a case that had been run experimentally. I may hash some of the details, but the gist is that half the classes that used it read about "John" facing a tough management problem, while the other half read about "Jane" facing the same problem. No detail other than the names had been changed.

But what a difference a name makes! "John" was a strong, thoughtful leader making tough choices about what was best for his group. "Jane" was a headstrong bitch who was wildly overstepping her authority and generally making a mess of things.

No woman is unaware of these dynamics. When I'm in group interviews or meetings, frequently I will start talking at the same time as a man starts talking. Almost always, I shut up and let the man finish talking, and hope I'll get a chance to ask a question later. Over time, two things have become clear to me:

1. The men are completely unaware that this is happening. They are not hostile or trying to shut women down; perhaps that happened in yesteryear, but I don't think it happens now. They just do not see that when the verbal space is contested, they keep talking, and the woman almost always stops first.

2. For their own personal good, women should stop first, because if they keep talking, they do not strike a telling blow for feminism; they get labeled as an unbearably pushy and difficult sort of person.

3. In the comments to this post, there will be at least some men accusing me of overreacting, not knowing what I am talking about, and/or making unfair demands*. There will also probably be at least one woman who says that this has never happened to her; her experience will be taken as representative by the men making the above complaints, while mine is dismissed as special pleading.

Someone will also probably hypothesize that I am, in fact, an unbearably pushy person. But this gets it backwards. I am indeed quite opinionated, very fond of talking, and tolerably thick-skinned, and I have already proven willing to bend gender norms at least enough to work in a field that's moderately strongly male-identified. If I am making a conscious decision to shut up every time a man and I start talking at the same time, then other women are engaging in even more extreme forms of self-censorship.

I am sure that none of the students who read that case thought to themselves "women should not take charge". They just felt that there was something wrong and inappropriate about a woman who did. Differential gender standards are rarely distilled these days, as actual abstract standards that people are willing to name--or indeed, even conscious of believing. They are merely applied consistently in every individual case.

*Note: I have not made any demands.

Both of the posts are worth reading.

Comments

[digitalemur.livejournal.com]

how many men in business have ever been told by their bosses to watch their tone in meetings because others might be perceiving them as too aggressive

I wonder if someone's done a study on this, but if they _have_, holy crap, I think I know what the answer is going to be!

[skreeky]

My annual reviews have noted more than once that I talk over people in meetings, and this is bad thing, and I should be aware and stop doing it.

On the one hand, yes, I *do* talk over other people, quite loudly and aggressively, especially if they are getting off topic and wasting our (my) time.

On the other hand, I tend to take that sort of criticism with a small grain of salt, on a hunch that this behavior wouldn't even be noticed if I were male.

Knowing that it is generally not helpful to be perceived as rude, I have tried to be aware of when I am doing it and consider whether I ought to be. (Often the answer is yes.)

Perhaps this is why I prefer to do most of my communication via email. Of course, I'm also told that my written communications are too aggressive.

Overall, if that's the worst thing that shows up on my reviews, I figure I'm due for a promotion.

[digitalemur.livejournal.com]

I don't really want to be talked over in meetings by anyone-- I like efficiency in meetings quite a lot, myself, but I try not to enact it at the cost of cutting people off. There are conversational techniques that can keep people on track, or suggest that hey we should talk about Y topic more, but X is the topic on the table right now, so let's get back to that decision we need to make about X. And I don't think it's wrong for an office to aim for that sort of interaction over people talking over each other-- I sure as hell can't follow conversations when there's a lot of that, no matter of the gender of the people involved.

[digitalemur.livejournal.com]

And yeah, when these things are the worst things that show up on your reviews, you're probably still doing a damn good job!