Followup to our road trip conversation Sunday night:

[randomness]

lisa_bee, holmes_iv: maybe this might address why certain men don't actually interact with women as if they were people?

I didn't figure this out until I read Robert Bly's book Iron John (this was when that short-lived "men's movement" thing was starting up). I had read a lot of Bly's poetry as an undergraduate, so I read this book too. A lot of it seemed pretty silly to me, but there was one passage that struck me like a hammer to the forehead. What it said was, the Woman With the Golden Hair does not exist. What Bly meant by that was, a lot of men are looking for their anima -- the term Jung gave to the feminine side of a man's personality. But what a lot of men in a patriarchal culture do not understand is that the anima is part of them, and is not to be found in another person. This is because men in a patriarchal culture are taught precisely that they don't have an anima: that there is nothing feminine about them, or if there is, that it is a bad thing and must be suppressed. Unfortunately, what this means is that a lot of guys who are a bit of a mess (and who isn't, really?) tend to project their anima onto the women they see around them.

The reason that this hit me was that I suddenly realized what I was doing wrong: I wasn't reacting to women as if they were real people. Instead, I was reacting to them as if they were the missing part of myself.

Yes, yes, I know. It should have been bloody obvious, right? Well, it wasn't, at least not until then. And that, oddly enough, is one thing about patriarchy. It's a system of thought so ubiquitous you don't always realize you're in it. Even when you've been raised by a couple of strong and smart women, it still shapes your thinking and behavior.

(from http://thevanitypress.blogspot.com/2007/06/confessions-of-former-nice-guy.html. Thanks to cmeckhardt for the timely pointer!)

Comments

[karakara98.livejournal.com]

I don't think you need to be a man, or even subject to the patriarchy to fall victim to that fallacy. What I'm saying is that, as a woman, I've felt that way myself about people. One could just as easily say this is a product of the extreme individualism of our current culture.

Thanks for posting a provocative post!

[r-ness.livejournal.com]

You don't, but it helps, because men really are taught to "be a man" and reject aspects of themselves which are seen as traditionally feminine. So while it's certainly possible to have a corresponding "I must find the person who completes me" behavior, the particular way in which men look for those characteristics in women--nurturance, tenderness, empathy--which are traditionally seen as feminine, follows from the gendered way in which these characteristics are often portrayed and depicted.

Thanks for posting a provocative post!

Provocative posts our specialty! :)

Also...

[r-ness.livejournal.com]

...I totally owe you a reply, and at this point, an apology for the delay.

A while ago you commented saying you'd like to meet up for lunch; I'd love to do that sometime, and I'm sorry it's taken so long to get back to you!

Re: Also...

[karakara98.livejournal.com]

No worries! Life is busy, and things get nuts. If all else fails, perhaps I'll see you at the reunion?