Why did you abandon the mainstream?

[randomness]

(a placeholder for a more substantive post)

In many ways I was never accepted by the mainstream. By virtue of the combination of my race and upbringing, I was always going to be the "other". So in contrast to many of my friends, who appear to have consciously chose the subculture, I ended up here because integrating into the mainstream was problematic.

And there are many mainstream assumptions which I think are completely fucked-up. That tends to reinforce my decision. Not that the particular social niche I find myself in is lacking in fucked-up assumptions, but perhaps there aren't as many, or at least there are fewer which impact me directly.

I'm still thinking about this.

Comments

[ketzl.livejournal.com]

Clear from the way I was treated, too :) But how they singled ME out, I don't know, since I did look like them. Of course your experience was different. In one sense you might have had it easier; you got a really obvious reason why you were treated different, but I was left with a hollow sense that something about me was strange and immediately apparent to "normal" people, only it was invisible to me so not only couldn't I do anything about it, I didn't even know what it was. Some days I have to go bar-hopping with work associates and the feeling comes back to me strong. Bar-hopping, yuck!

Yeah-- not trying to devalue or judge, just discuss.

At one of G's classes last weekend, a dyke commented that she'd just realized something. Gay or lesbian leatherpeople have it hard in a lot of ways but easy in that they're already out of the mainstream so that they can do their own thing, whatever that might be. Straight/bi kinky folk can pass, she said, but the possibility of conforming makes it harder to forge our own path. For better or worse.

[clauclauclaudia]

How they singled ME out, I don't know, since I did look like them.

Yeah, this is my experience too. Really, I think I got in a vicious cycle of social awkwardness + stubbornness = emphasizing my own geekery. "Oh yeah? Well if that's how obnoxious you're going to be because I don't conform, I'm not going to even *try* to fit your standards. So there." Iterated through middle and high school. ;-)

But, I mean, finding social circles and communities that *did* accept me, in college and afterwards, didn't make me any likelier to try to fit in to ther circles. It just confirmed me in my stubbornness or something.

[quietann.livejournal.com]

I'm another one who can "pass" at least for a while. A lot of my problems in grad school and in my first post-PhD job (assistant professor) came up because over any period of time, I can't hide that I'm "weird." Moving in the direction of tech (I am a biostatistician) was a good choice, because it's a geeky enough profession that people expect me to be a bit strange. By the terms of my current crowd, which is essentially the same as r_ness's I am probably a bit too "normal."

But in elementary school, yes, I got picked on. Some of it was my own social and emotional immaturity, and being small and clumsy, combined with a scary intellect. I don't have Aspergers, but as a kid I had a certain rigidity in how I'd play and with whom. Or I'd get really obsessed with something (horses!) and not want to do/talk about anything else. Middle school was hell, but for high school I went to a math/science/computers magnet, which was *much* easier.

[r-ness.livejournal.com]

By the terms of my current crowd, which is essentially the same as r_ness's

While we do have a lot of overlap in one crowd, I think a number of crowds that I'm in have significant differences in assumptions.

(Just an observation; not meant to refute anything you're saying.)

[r-ness.livejournal.com]

you got a really obvious reason why you were treated different

Yes, and it's true that it was obvious, but not for the reason you think.

In my case it was explicitly stated. People said it to my face; you are not like us because of this part of your appearance.

I was left with a hollow sense that something about me was strange and immediately apparent to "normal" people, only it was invisible to me so not only couldn't I do anything about it, I didn't even know what it was.

And as you say, it was easier, because I didn't have to wonder about it. Now, they may not have been exactly correct about the reason, because it isn't just about appearance; there are a whole complex of socially constructed values around that difference, but as a first approximation it certainly was helpful to my understanding that I had that obvious reason to hang the construct from.

Moreover, it wasn't anything I could change, so the idea of attempting to "pass" wasn't even an option, so I think that helped me come to the conclusion that the right way was out, rather than attempting to ingratiate myself.

Some days I have to go bar-hopping with work associates and the feeling comes back to me strong. Bar-hopping, yuck!

See, I actually rather like bar-hopping with the right crowd. The activity itself can be fun. It's the "work associates" part that can be problematic. And that goes back to the shared assumptions that your work associates may have, which may not be the ones you hold.

the possibility of conforming makes it harder to forge our own path.

Yeah, it can be a trap to attempt to pass. Conforming is sometimes a form of complicity. Of course, one can't always be a rebel, but conforming isn't always seen as a choice one makes, which it definitely is.

(I have a post that's been on the stack for a while about the intersection of kink and feminism, and the issues around being a straight male top. It's still inchoate, though.)

[redbird]

Yes. I can pass, for a while, or in casual contexts. Especially here in New York, where even if I looked more stereotypically Jewish, that wouldn't be distinctive. Someone who just sees me with cattitude, like most of our neighbors, will read us as a heterosexual, presumably monogamous, settled couple.

That doesn't mean no sense of alienation, but a different sort, in a number of ways. (Even when I was very much on the outside, in grade school, nobody ever told me why. I'm not sure they could have identified it.)

[agrimony.livejournal.com]

My experience as a wee tot was similar to ketzl's.

[klingonlandlady.livejournal.com]

Yep, same here. one of the values of the mainstream really is that the default, the normative if you will, is of a heterosexual white male.

Being a girl was not mainstream, being Too Smart especially wasn't (thank you, public school)... and liking non-girl activities was not cool. And I'd traveled a lot and didn't have an American upbringing per se. I spoke like an adult. There was no way i could fake fitting in.

It was interesting living in japan and being a "visible minority" though, where people can tell at a distance... an educational experience. In the US there is a certain amount of safety in "at least I'm white", especially if you dress well. People treat you better.