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randomnessThe news about the Carnival Triumph and its recent troubles got me to looking into the line's recent record:
Is this number of incidents normal for cruise lines? Is Carnival Cruise lines known to be more accident prone than other lines? They do have a large fleet, so I suppose it could just be random chance, but it doesn't seem like a good record.
I don't know the first thing about cruise lines and their reputations, so I'm asking.
- On November 8, 2010, a fire broke out in the generator room of the Carnival Splendor and the ship lost most power.
- On January 13, 2012, the Costa Concordia, operated by a Carnival subsidiary, ran aground off Isola del Giglio, Tuscany. The ship capsized and partially sank, killing 32 people.
- In March 2012, the Costa Allegra, owned by Carnival Cruise Lines' Costa Cruises subsidiary, suffered an engine room fire and went adrift in the Indian Ocean.
- In February 2013, the Carnival Triumph, with 3,143 passengers aboard, suffered an engine room fire, leaving the ship adrift for days in the Gulf of Mexico.
Is this number of incidents normal for cruise lines? Is Carnival Cruise lines known to be more accident prone than other lines? They do have a large fleet, so I suppose it could just be random chance, but it doesn't seem like a good record.
I don't know the first thing about cruise lines and their reputations, so I'm asking.
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(no subject)
Date: 2013-02-14 07:48 pm (UTC)http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/13/opinion/walker-cruise-ships/index.html
(no subject)
Date: 2013-02-14 07:49 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-02-14 07:49 pm (UTC)It all made sense... scary sense... but sense... in explaining why there are so many dangerous issues on cruise ships.
The cruise lines operate their ships virtually 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 52 weeks a year. Cruise ships do not make money unless they are operating. The cruise lines push the ships just as hard as they push their crew members. A ship out of service for a week for routine maintenance means the loss of tens of millions of dollars and thousands of dissatisfied customers.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-02-14 08:14 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-02-14 09:04 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-02-14 09:26 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-02-14 11:46 pm (UTC)And at least JV travel, unlike JV poly, is something I've successfully avoided. (Oh god, so not proud of my JV poly moments.)
(no subject)
Date: 2013-02-15 06:04 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-02-15 07:11 am (UTC)I think using JV to describe a proficiency level is more true to the original coining of the term than to use it as a challenge rating.
There are some people or combinations of people who would be very challenging to date. I once might have been interested in taking on that challenge, but now I might think carefully about why I wanted to do act on that before I did.
I think that's either experience or fatigue.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-02-15 02:54 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-02-15 03:20 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-02-15 05:38 pm (UTC)That last bit is unusual. It probably speaks to just how bad a PR disaster this has been.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-02-14 08:08 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-02-14 08:09 pm (UTC)I am now convinced I never want to go on a cruise ship.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-02-14 08:19 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-02-14 09:35 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-02-15 04:55 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-02-15 12:33 am (UTC)Still, I recommend the cruise as a vacation option in general. Just avoid Carnival and Costa.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-02-15 03:03 am (UTC)The funny thing is that for many years I'd thought about taking one of Cunard's Transatlantic Crossings. It's funny because they, like so many other lines, are owned by the colossus that is Carnival.
I'm guessing that the management structure is sufficiently compartmentalized that the brands are very differently administered so that the customer experience is quite different. At least, I sure hope so.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-02-15 02:33 pm (UTC)That said, I've been cruising for long enough that I've noticed some cost cutting even in its subsidiaries. The Holland America of today isn't quite as elegant as the Holland America before it was acquired. These are subtle things that wouldn't be noticed by a first time passenger, like a waiter managing 5 tables in the dining room instead of 3. But for the most part, they continue their own traditions.
I do highly recommend a transatlantic on the QM2. I've done it before and actually just made plans to do it again in May. It isn't really any more expensive than a flight and a lot more fun, even if it does take 6 days longer. But if you have the time, I say the experience is definitely worth it.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-02-15 05:41 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-02-15 06:31 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-02-15 02:53 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-02-15 03:18 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-02-15 03:40 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-02-15 04:59 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-02-15 06:29 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-02-15 06:51 am (UTC)On Yelp, I found this comment:
"[W]hat I'm saying here is that Carnival cruise lines is the budget choice for redneck, white trash, obese America."
I sense someone found they were not on a ship with people from their own class background. :)
I am still looking for a guide to cruise market segmentation, however.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-02-15 07:02 am (UTC)-Carnival - low tier
-Norwegian - middle tier
-Royal Carribean/Celebrity/Princess - higher tier
-Cunard/SilverSeas/Crystal - money to burn tier
(no subject)
Date: 2013-02-15 02:50 pm (UTC)Back in the old days (i.e. pre-1965), cruising was a very regimental system with first, second, and third class on the same ship (think Titanic which took it to the extreme). As the Americans have become more involved in the industry, a more egalitarian model was adopted as common spaces became open to everyone. I remember cruising on some very old ships in Hawaii awhile ago that were built in the 1950s. Very sturdy despite their size, but one of their peculiarities was that they were built for a class system and then converted making navigation on board weirdly difficult. What I find interesting, is the class system is starting to make its way back, though under a slightly different guise. Cruises give a great deal of perks to repeat customers creating a pseudo-class system and one that's almost invisible until you become aware of it.
Cunard, probably due to its British heritage, never really got rid of the class system, though its softened considerably in the past century. Those who have better staterooms also dine in better dining rooms and have similar bonuses. Nevertheless, you can get an inside cabin on a Cunard ship relatively cheaply as opposed to Crystal where everything is expensive.
Perhaps another way of looking at it is to observe the passengers' evening wear. On Carnival, they might have one formal night a week which means men might wear a jacket. On Cunard, except for the first and last nights of a transatlantic (when packing and unpacking is a concern), at least 80% of the men are in black tie.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-02-15 02:53 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-02-15 05:15 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-02-15 06:45 am (UTC)From what I've been reading, margins are pretty tight for the industry as a whole, not just Carnival. On the other hand, because they do cater to poorer cruise customers, Carnival may have even less room for error than some other lines.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-02-15 12:49 pm (UTC)Anyway, in particular, I was impressed by the food! I figured it would be pleasant, fattening, and nondescript, which in the main dining hall it mostly was. But we made reservations for a night in the on-board restaurant, which was as good and creative/innovative as any fine dining in a major U.S. city or tourist destination. And I was particularly impressed by the on-board bakery -- the baguettes and croissants were, honestly, comparable to those I had in Paris. I'm not kidding -- they were amazing!
Also,bloodstones' JV-travel term came up in a conversation with me. Jeff and I want to go somewhere in the next few months -- while we still can! :-) -- and I realized I just don't have the energy for my usual "run around and try to see/experience/eat everything" kind of travel. I'm looking for more of a "sit on the beach and have someone bring me virgin pina coladas" kind of travel. So I was thinking short cruise... but this story has me thinking again -- especially right now! (Though I was certainly thinking less Carnival and more Celebrity for a cruise line...)
Actually, if you have recommendations for non-cruise-based JV (intramural?) travel in countries where, as my doctor said,"you'd feel comfortable getting a blood transfusion" then I'm all ears! :-) (ETA -- with the complication that it also needs to be someplace pleasant to visit in March or April...)
(no subject)
Date: 2013-02-15 05:31 pm (UTC)Probably somewhere warm, then? If it's a short trip I wouldn't go any farther than the Caribbean. One of the richer islands is probably best if you're concerned about health care.
That having been said if you really want to play it safe you don't even have to leave the States. There are plenty of warm places in the lower 48 that will work for a "sit on the beach and have someone bring me virgin pina coladas" trip.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-02-23 11:51 pm (UTC)We will definitely cruise again, but not with Carnival.
Oh, and get a balcony. Better when things are good, much better if things go wrong.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-02-24 01:11 am (UTC)Consensus on this subject seems to be that Carnival is worth avoiding, and that Disney is great if you have kids.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-02-24 01:16 am (UTC)And a belated happy birthday!