(no subject)

[randomness]

Occasionally, I get really angry on behalf of some of my friends because of appearance privilege.

Here's what I mean: I have a number of friends who are really sweet, wonderful people. They often get treated badly, however, in part because they don't fit the societal definition of what people (women, particularly--most of them are women) should look like.

On the other hand, there are a few acquaintances who get away with truly obnoxious behavior because they're conventionally attractive. (I can't think of anyone who fits that description who is actually a friend, for the obvious reason that sufficiently obnoxious behavior tends to drive me away, even when I haven't been directly affected by it.)

There's not much I can do about it except try to be a good friend, but it still rankles.

Comments

[lyonesse.livejournal.com]

i think there is stuff individuals can do (in addition to the invaluable being-a-good-friend). like, include them in social spaces, talk them up to other people to encourage social network formation, pay them compliments about their individual excellentness to help combat the downer of being the victim of prejudice. (come to think of it i guess this extends to a lot of the excellent people who are nevertheless victims of social prejudice.)

[thespian.livejournal.com]

I was having a discussion with someone about this last week; there is someone who is intentionally acting like a brat and then almost literally doing 'don't hate me because I'm beautiful.'

I was ignored at the PolyBoston table twice at Pride, btw, for 'thinneryoungerblonder', by people who don't know me and were not ignoring me because they knew I was involved...they were ignoring me because there was 'cuter' available even though cuter was behind me...I literally *didn't* exist.

[nafe.livejournal.com]

Don't hate me because I'm beautiful!

[cerebralpaladin.livejournal.com]

Yeah. A friend and colleague of mine once commented that appearance is the basis of discrimination that is most tolerated in our society-- someone who is conventionally ugly may face more discrimination in terms of jobs, opportunities, promotions, etc. (let alone social things) than someone who is a person of color, or a minority religion, or queer, and yet there are no protections at all legally or even mostly by norms. And of course it goes beyond attractive/unattractive, but even just at that cut it has a huge effect and nobody seems to care.

I agree, btw, that this hits women much more than men. I wonder whether the US has this worse than the UK; I wonder if the UK's willingness to show less beautiful people on television makes a difference.

[marith.livejournal.com]

Hear, hear. It's one of those things I think tends to be really invisible until one is affected by it, directly or indirectly.

At a work meeting once, someone showed a slide humorously comparing our product to a photo of a fat woman's backside and the competition to a model in a bikini. Apparently it was a big hit at the organization conference in Germany.

I tartly suggested that it must be nice to be a small thin woman and be able to say such things. My coworkers froze in horror. They had no idea such a thing could be considered offensive and fell over themselves apologizing. (They really are very nice people and would never say anything hurtful on purpose - and they're tiny cute Asian women, and had never given a thought to the advantages that gives them presenting to a roomful of men.)

(Much like I rarely think about the advantages being a confident outspoken white woman gives me in every business situation. It goes all ways.)

[dpolicar]

(nods) So, there's two parts to this.

First, that life is difficult for some people in ways they don't deserve.
Second, that life is NOT difficult for some people who deserve it more.

About the first there isn't much to say beyond "Ayup" (and perhaps "come sit with me under this fig tree, and we'll talk about it," if one is up to the job description).

Do you want it not to rankle? Or do you just want to acknowledge that it rankles? (Nothing wrong with the latter; just asking.)

I find that, when I'm having difficulty accepting that sometimes life is difficult for me, it helps to think about the to-a-first-approximation-100% of the people who have ever lived who would do just about anything to get to live my life.

You might find a similar perspective to be helpful when contemplating your friends' lives. Perhaps they suffer for their atypical looks so much the percentage drops to 99%, maybe even as low as 97% (though I find that very unlikely), but they're still doing way better than they deserve. Good for them!

Of course, there's that second aspect. Maybe we're the beneficiaries of Grace, but there exist other people who are even more so, or who we consider less worthy of it, and that rankles.

To which, again, there isn't much to say beyond "Ayup".

[ratushebarl.livejournal.com]

> and they're tiny cute Asian women, and had never given a thought to the
> advantages that gives them presenting to a roomful of men.)

I'd question that -- I think quite a few more people don't like to admit they're working what they've got, than don't know it.

For myself, I can't imagine not knowing. My line of work has taken me into many nearly-all-male enclaves, and of course I've used that when it was an advantage. We work what we have. But I've never had to look in the mirror to know when I was the only woman present, and that it mattered.

"ugly"

[cthulhia]

is less of a problem than fat, from what I can tell.

In fact, it seems fat is the primary definition of ugly, especially with women.

Not that I'm not freshly embittered about this or anything.

[tyellas.livejournal.com]

I do know what you mean. -hugs- to you and your friends. This reminds me of an incident two years ago, and its two-years-later follow on:

I was spending some time with a physically attractive man, someone in the Johnny Depp line - it was an attempt at a relationship based on unusual-for-this-area compatible kink - and, feeling insecure, I asked, "Am I pretty enough for you?" He hemmed, and hawed, and said something along the lines of "Well, I'm here, aren't I?"

Two years later, we've been split up for, why, two years! And I caught up with him two nights ago. He's just turned 40, with all that implies, and is fretting about what to do next. He asked what I was up to relationship-wise. Thinking of a recent health crisis and the people who stood by me through it, and how lucky I was to have them, I said, "I've been focusing on my friends." He gazed at me as if I had uttered the secret to life itself.

Because I had.